Winnipeg Free Press

Winnipeg Free Press (Newspaper) - June 24, 1915, Winnipeg, Manitoba Coldwell sent Peuss wot Hoeq thursday 1915. From Pago one to use his phone Long distance Call. This unusual but he thought perhaps a ninth wanted to get a free message it so lie allowed Kellott to do or. Desired going out of the while Elliott did. His to lepton As Elliott expected an answer or cold Eli obligingly gave him Trio to k too his private at of the parliament building sir. A old him to wait there. He did know that Telliott phoned Hook. M knew of Elliott s trip. Coldwell admitted that he before the Public accounts be closed. Elliott had Chicago utter Salt. In fact to him on his return t to did not trouble to disclose his in idae to the Public accounts he said that he did not Hook followed Elliott on similar Mission. Connection with hoi Wood s cents about or. Simpson the inquired if his name were the one mentioned and. Received a reply in the affirmative. He at once told the attorney general that under the conditions it would to impossible for him to act that it would be Neces reinforced Concrete to amount to the sum of v or. Would the Way you figure it Oul. Or. It not occur to at the time. A or. It did t. Sary to secure naw men using one or both of his fellow commissioner of if necessary. In any event they a would recommend that a new com mar of Alweil w Mission be appointed to go into the Fullerton charges. Hon. G. R. Coldwell again. A. Coldwell positively swore that there was a Council meeting about August 6 or 8. 1913, at which he made the Cost and 10 per notation on Horwood s letter by or. Simon us. Of my mind is inked by counsel -ltj1. V.w1vivh5ji ,.n5 us cd we whether he did not look at letters which mentioned this increase Ana or. Coldwell remarked that it might seem strange but he never looked at any. Letters on the subject before they came before the Public Mitten. Or. Coyne asked witness whether during the sitting of the Public accounts committee he had Noi been reminded of the 35 per cent m Een Rene the changes in design. He said or. Crease and or. Coldwell replied no Suwon was present at hand would nothing reminded me of it at All. F by astounded if or. Simon were to deny that. It is my said or. Coyne that there was no such Council or. Coldwell help that. He said he could not. Clearly remembered Twne minister of education said Styc far As he was of truth in them. If or. Simpson strolled the general Campaign fund f the Wrev it was news to him. He that he had never told Hor and to take orders from Simpson the parliament buildings or Simpson fixed the amounts of Warwood s estimates. Stories to that sect said or. Coldwell were pure inventions. Confidence in Horwood. Or. Coldwell declared tha his Confidence in Horwood re Iii Ned unimpaired until after the sessions of the House closed. He denied that part of hoi Woods evid which alleges fat Intel viewed him about unsigned work certificates and also denied that he authorised Elliott to sign them. Had testified that he grew suspicious about the caissons before the close of the legislature and that he communicated his suspicions to ill Colduvell. The sex minister denied this too. His Confidence in Elliott he said had been rudely shaken of into the commission adjourned at -1 o clock until . Today. Or. A Clawell s examination Wiir be continued and will ask him to disclose what took place at certain party caucuses. He mated yester Day that he considers such matters pro themed and will not divulge them but added that at no party caucus of which to had any knowledge was the parliament build ing discussed. Mornini session. At Tho opening of inc morning Hack ohm chief Justice Mathers said that he wished to the statements Maine before the com miss Ion by or. Fiill Erton. It could readily to seen by anyone to said that the matters mentioned by or. Fulle Loii did not come under the express scope of the commission. The charge made by 31r. Fullerton he said arose out of matters said to have taken place after the present appointed. Writing the note As he sat at the Premier s table. Did you when you Learned at the Public accounts committee of heavy extra costs on the building make any inquiry to find out what the cause of the increase no. I did not. The department was in the charge of a minister and f i had gone probing into it i should Rhu Yokly have been sent about my had no conference. i understand that before go ing to the committee you had no with sir Rodmond Rob Lin or. Montague or. Horwood and that is absolutely and you sat through the com Mittee and you. Say you had 110 suspicions As to wrong doing until after the House i say that. 1 had absolute Confidence in or. or. Coldwell proceeded to explain he thought that he Wen to Brandon when the House prorogued returning to Winnipeg on monday. Or. How Den told him about the. Alleged Kelly tender. V keeps blame on Horwood. I have seen or. Howden and to says it was he who first told me Kelly s claim. Looking Back i think that i Frisht. I sent for Horwood and he came to see me with the result i have told you of. I hated to believe it of him. I hate to believe it of him now but i m forced counsel asked the witness if it had not struck him at the committee that the actual Cost of the caissons was vastly in excess of the 25 per cent increase estimated by Simon. He said it had not. The matters came fresh to him at the committee and having absolute Confidence in Horwood he was Content or. Coyne you then Learned that there were increases in caissons and steel work that would Cost approximately or. Coldwell assented. Or. Coyne you then Learned that there was a contract for for steel Grill age for the South Wing Lunini inuit i seem extraordinary but that is my. You hear the Hibits read or. Counsel then i referred to or. Stances i think they were or. Cold Well. Shan Larid s letter of january a 1jj.4, in which it Baid that 25, per cent would Havo to be added Lor the changes that were to be made and to this or. Coldwell replied that he never doubted the correctness or this and also or. Horwood s conduct one particle nor did it occur to him that under this 25 per cent increase would mean that the Ongeal Cost was. Or. Coyne mentioned that in the very first Day of the Public accounts committee the contract for the North Wing was brought up to the amount of and there was a reference to or. Brydone Jack s estimate. Did it not occur to you to look Bry done Jack s or. Cannot remember that it did. The first recollection 1 have is that or. Hudson or or. John son Drew the attention of a witness to it. I Havo no recollection that it occurred to me to look into it at commission was yesterday the attorney general had asked the commission to accept enlarged Powers informing them at the. Samp Lime amt or. Fullerton wished to Call a member of commission to give evidence. The chief Justice instead of answering or. Coldwell asked to see the contract and when it was placed in his hands he said or. Horwood was a Little confused at Tho time. 1 understood that with the exception of contract till amount would cover the steel to the roof with the exception of the dome. Or. Coyne pointed out that in or. s report there were three appendixes and no. 2. Said additional Cost would be and tha total Cost what did you think of or. Saw there must do some explanation of it. And i asked or. Horwood. He said that no. 2 was an estimate Only and that there were items in appendix three that were not in no. 2. He told me that appendix 3 was the right one and that no. 2 should have been eliminated. It was Only an estimate. Were All estimates. Or. You Swallow that explanation As to the reason or the difference did you really think that in one Case or. Brydone Jack was making an approximate statement that was Oul and that the other was an estimate that was exactly or. Coldwell said lie thought that perhaps the estimates might be made out on different dates. Counsel said they right but As a matter of fact Hoy were All dated thu same Day january 15, 1914. Or. Coldwell Sutt in answer to a question that Thusn things did not produce in him any suspicion although to asked Tor an explanation. R did not mean necessarily that to ask for an explanation was to have suspicion. Or. It not seem strange to you when , of the Mani we works stated on july 9 or. Coldwell made a speech about jealous manufacturers who would say anything to Hurt a government that had them the contract and1 then went on summing up the whole matter facts speak for or. Do and i am bringing the facts to your attention to you have anything to say to explain them or. Coyne taking a somewhat Dif Ferent line asked or. Coldwell whether things tha were being outside during the sittings of the Public accounts committee did not impress him that there must be some thing wrong. I or. Know what the attitude was All right or. Coyne if Yon had. Been wrongly accused by tort press and your opponents As i have you would cease to pay any attention to criticisms. What the free press and Tribune say with regard to not affect me As much As a Feather would. Or. Might say you Are to criticism or. Coldwell. The matter then dropped. The next subject of inquiry was re Garding or. Salt s Black Book. Or. Witness to admit that As Early As March 11 the Depths of Jie caissons were discussed considerably and asked whether or. Coldwell inquired from or. Horwood about the records or. Horwood possessed. Or. Coldwell said he did not see any rec ords until they were brought before the Public accounts committee. Said witness was trying to make a plan of the caissons and was using the Book for that and when or. says i told him to keep the Book out of the Way As Long As possible he is saying what is absolutely incorrect. I told him to produce it at once. Come to that a Little later. Or. Salt s Black Book. Or. Coyne remarked that when or. Coldwell was speaking about or. Asked him for the state ment the committee Rose and replied i Ani Short of re a. Certain number of caissons.1 Salt had. Some slips of paper and they were handed in to my office and we cannot find them and this Book Only accounts for a certain number of the caissons. We can t Complete the statement until we get the estimates it did not look very Good it is True but believed Man v you never had that there was anything or. Suppose we did but had Confidence in him. Asked the report which the Public accounts committee had submitted to the House or. Coldwell said 16 had voted for its adoption but did Othave any hand in preparation of it. What do you think of if i recognize a great mistake was made now that i know the condition of affairs. Had i had any inkling or suspicion it at the time there would have been a. Very different state of speech in the was it substantially Cor i it tool rather understate you were suspicious of the when of you saw i wont say you have said that Ali Eady or. i have no recollection of saying that the Book was not in shape and As a lawyer if i had been wanting to make any recommendation i would not Nave advised Horwood to produce a Book of that kind which would hang him in a min Ute. That is the Best evidence that i saw it was a very suspicious looking Book when you saw it before the it was in the Condi Tion you find it but i believe Hor Wood s evidence. With All this accumulation of suspicious circumstances when you came to Salt s Book you were still a unsuspicious of any wrong doing in connection with the Parlia ment buildings As you had been Ai any1 i had my eyes opened since and since hearing the Evl vile re when honesty and integrity i the i Don t know about that. There were some things that were substantially Correct but there were others which were Given As estimates air the time you heard the speech did you have1 any qualms about the committee s of i had sat in the House As a. Private member and i Don t think my impression of the speeches of other members of parliament is a proper subject for Here. I might hire had All sorts of the chief Justice i Don t think it is material. Or. Coyne thought the Point was material in View of questions he was leading up to. Or. Coldwell claimed the privilege of a member of parliament. Chief Justice Mathers replied that there was no question of such a Pri Dence of some witnesses i have had them opened wider when the question of prime costs cropped up you were still uns spic i knew that prime costs were in the contract and i knew How the order in Council re lating to them had been considered and disposed asked by or. Coyne Why he had directed the Public accounts com. Nutter not to allow or. Boddington to do some figuring requested by or. Salt s Black Book once before he had Hudson or. Coldwell denied having said that there were pen and Ink done so saying he thought it was Marks in it As Well As the Pencil the chairman who had Given the i writing and he or. Coyne could not find any Ink Marks in the first sex l Hibit produced the Book which or. Coldwell stated was Salt s Black Book. Or. Co dwell took the Book in his hands and found one figure in Ink and. Said this is tha Book. We Don t need to Haggle about or had in your mind when you gave your evidence before a Book in. Which there were pen and Ink Marks. I suggest to you that the Book you recollect is this Book i show you producing another Black Book. Or. Coldwell sir i never saw that Book before. Or. Is the Only Book in which there Are Ink Marks Pencil writing and i suggest to you that or. Horwood gave you this Book As Well As the first one. Or. Andrews is nothing to suggest that he had seen this Book. Or. Is something in Tho evidence to suggest that or. Coldwell May Havo seen this or. Coyne then asked witness to look through the books but instead of doing so or. Coldwell declared spirit i am As positive to r can be that the first Book is the Only one i Evor saw. And the first time i saw it was when it was produced at the Public accounts committee. I could suggest something to you but this is the caissons. Or. Coyne. Section. Or. Coyne quoted from the report of the committee s proceedings say ing this made it Clear that or. Cold Well had blocked the verification of the figures in question. Or. Coldwell replied that the mat Ter had dropped and no objection had been taken in the legislature to tie course adopted. Or. Should say so when i it was not allowed at the committee. Did you make any inquiry your i self in regard to getting or. Salt Only from or. i did you ask him if he had found where he i think i did and i remember he told me he had found Salt in Minneapolis. Whether he had found his address or not i can t re Horwood s Burden. Replying to other questions coldwell said he had trusted or. Hor Wood entirely in the matter of bring ing Back Salt. Or. Cast an enormous Burden on or. Horwood. Were in question. Imp. Coyne thereupon asked witness if he realized at that time the impropriety of the committee s rulings in excluding certain evidence. Or. Soldwell replied in the Nega Tive stating that at that time he did not think i. Hudson was Cor reel in a lot of his estimates and figures. It was a party question. You looked upon this As a party question and you thought that your Side was the re presentations made by our party were Correct. I made no Effort to investigate but i understand the Prem Ier had somebody estimating the yardage for habits of the House. Or. Hudson in his speech referred had you no suspicion there was i something considerably no we got into the habit of Dis believing each other in the nouse and not paying very much attention to arguments from the your heart becomes hardened against what anybody on the other Sido May there is a Good Deal of truth Iri that and it applies to both sides of you were not open to anything that was not brought up your own Side is that the Long and Short of i won t say that but it takes a Frood Deal from the other Side to replying to further questions or. Coldwell said he took or. Horwood s word for it that All the rings Timber and Concrete stated had been put into continuing put the following questions to the witness were there not a number of caucuses i absolutely decline to Tell or. Coldwell retorted. The chief can answer whether or not there was a number. It May be a different matter As to what took refuses to Tell of caucuses or. Coyne repeated the question and or. Coldwell answered i Don t remember that there was any caucus with reference to this particular investigation. There were some caucuses during the session but i Don t propose to disclose what took place any party or. Want to know if the question of the evidence to be brought before Public accounts committee was not brought up at some or. Have told you what my answer is with regard to the proceedings of the or. Decline to answer whether there was any caucus at which the evidence to be brought before the committee was Dis or. Will Tell you what the opinions of members of the government were with regard to Evi Dence but i will not disclose any thing that took place at a party Cau mation which is absolutely Conli Jeu Andrewa objects. A. ,1. Andrews declared Pel cent of the comic Salon b Luio seemed to be taken up with party mat ters. He thought the inquiry was going far afield. Chief Justice Mathers remarked that makers affecting Tho snug qty of ministers in connection with Mic parliament buildings with regard a whether or not the wit less should disclose matters which took place at at the party caucus his. Lordship was not prepared 1o Rule on the question immediately. He Una Loretoo Tho wit contended such matters the were privileged. If the commission should not violate lug the parliamentary but it j.1j1v to overcharges and prepayments us. You Are As mtr me for info cleans and disinfects this Tye is absolutely pure. Therefore totally different from the impure and highly adulterated Lyes now sold. Or i did not make any inquiries. I simply listened to the evidence like anyone else on the pub Lic accounts committee and i was satisfied that or. Horwood could give a satisfactory explanation. With reference to the North Wing an additional contract for was mentioned and counsel remarked that at the rate of increase mentioned by or. Simon this would make the w Hole Cost of steel work in place of a Money saving bottle a bottle of Bouril in the Kitchen Down Butcher s Bills. It enormously in creases the nourishing value of fact jts body bulking Powers to Twenty times the amount taken. Wine tonic appetizer recommended for family use a v i o Thurio. France. Agents Hudo Hebert 6 co limit cd Montreal Bermuda Salisbury collars Wilma Sgreene mate had been put through per Cunt of the steel and payment of had been made for the South win though there was no Stool sumrli0coldwell said that i. Hor Wood s explanation did not seem very satisfactory to him at. The time but that when he questioned or. Harwood the latter said that there. Was some owing to Kelly s to Orund and that made Avail right. 1 thought in was irregular but believed that we were safeguarded sufficient or. Coyne it occur to you it must be Bouril. Iii Willm Oppl Sun not the plane. 1 want to give you the there was not Naa i. Eel fall and the facts plied altogether Aud. Nom 101 i r. Facts Are what South wins Audret on or. Coyne then read from the Evi Dence of or. Hoi Wood when asked about the Price of steel that the Price wits cer ton. Whereas or. Lyall called immediately afterwards stated that the Price was a ton. Did no suspicion enter your mind that there was something wrong asked counsel. Or. Was not suspicious. or. Horwood made the steel out at ?j32 fixed and or. Lyall said he had sold steel at 509.85." or. Cold Well reiterated that there was no suspicion in his mind not withstanding the fact that the Price or Horwood quoted was double the other and also the fact that More had been actually paid for than had been supplied 011 those very contracts. Or. Coldwell stated that he thought perhaps there might have been other work done which would account for in Over payment. Counsel then turned to examine witness on the Salt episodes. Looking for Salt you knew that inquiry was made or or. when did you observe that the Book had been when or. Hudson Drew the attention of the Niblic accounts committee to this was about March 16, about or a some bread meat and fancy foods ran up Bills and run Down health. Why not get Back to Good old fashioned bread and a remedy for poor Diges Tion and the High Cost of living. But the sure of the to make any. Personal investigation ave some responsible person make is investigation of these i Regul have practises of issuing estimates in this Way whore there is plenty of work done 01 materials on the grounds. Or you not know that architects do not do that1. Do you not know it now or i do or Coyne then asked Why or. Coldwell was so anxious on March 10 last not to allow the Cost of steel to be investigated into. Why he did it. Or. Was responsible to the people As a member of Parlia ment and exercised my privileges. I thought it was not right that such evidence from the outside should be admitted and i acted on that. 1 have no other answer to give you. Sir Don t mean to Tel me that As a lawyer you thought the Cost of steel was not a. Proper subject tomorrow is the opening Day of the last great Sale of the Leslie Stock of furniture and Home furnishings to to inquired into or. I do. Lawyer Don t take just any thing that s labelled bread. Careful that the bread you eat make mistakes As Well As Anyon else or. May As Well Leav 11 or to l leave it at that. Perhaps i made mistake and perhaps i d int. Or. You Tell me hos it appeared to of that to were of Iii to get at the in Ostion o Cost without bringing evidence Fror the outside or thought it was Ali business of employees of the govern Mon to give that evidence. Alter All it was submitted to the commit tee and they exercised their judg ment i voted with the majority. Pressed again to give an explanation or. Coldwell said with of the shoulders i thought the Donee was not relevant. And you led lbs majority queried my. Coyne. Or. Thought the other members had some judgment. There were two prominent lawyers m Hie the Day when a subpoena had been Nade out in connection with it Nade i Don t what did you know about the shrug. Evi is made of pure materials arid that it is made in a clean bakery. You May avoid these chances by just say ing h0lsuh to your grocer it is baked in a bakery which is As clean a your own Kitchen and where bread is made almost entirely without that personal human tact so common in Ordinary Rowl bread is made Clear sold clean Del Robertd clean the Milton bakery w. R. Milton and Sherbrook St. Phone. Garry 814 efforts to get Salt there so far As the clerk of the House was concerned Don t know what was done until he was examined before the committee. _ does t remember did no suspicion Cross your mind at Tho time the clerk of the House was examined and when he said Salt could not be found and a subpoena Nad been put under salts "1 Don t did it not strike you As suspicious that no investigation was apparently made by the provincial architect about Salt s or. Horwood was asked about this Man and he said that Hook who was m charge of the department in which Salt worked had told Horwood he had no personal knowledge of him or. Hook was called and that Salt had gone away. That was the first knowledge i had of bait if Noel Trike you As Strangi that the Effort to get Sau should con to link they had not. Followed his recommendations. Ultimately my. Coldwell admitted that the committee largely followed his i commendations saying expect Uliey followed my recommendations and t Don t think yet they went you had an honest opinion at that Lime that you were doing your Best to get at the or. Mras a matter of Only witnesses you would allow were persons who were inter ested and whose business it was to support the government or. Thought they were or. Salt you your own prac further inquiry by the Best people. Or. The Circum probably make further inquiry ;