Winnipeg Free Press

Winnipeg Free Press (Newspaper) - August 31, 1986, Winnipeg, Manitoba Winnipeg free press August Page 7 issues the mix mess following Ore excerpts from the debates in the Manitoba As recorded in Han about the affairs of a subsidiary company of the Mani Toba Telephone Max has been involved in controversial Busi Ness dealings in saudi Arabia which have Ted to of discrimination in hiring the misuse of funds and misinformation being Given to the conservative opposition has called for an official inquiry into the affair the nip government has referring the matter instead to the ramp and an inde pendent management More excerpts will appear in Page 7 on september August 14 opposition Leader Guy Fumon my question is for the there is evidence on the record that the minister responsible for the Manitoba Telephone that previous ministers responsible for the Manitoba Telephone that indeed members of this House and the Public have been misled by information provided by senior officials at Manitoba Telephone sys tem regarding the return of equip ment from saudi Arabia regarding the employment of Theresa a san in saudi Arabia regarding the flog Ging incident in saudi Arabia arid on at least one Kickback that is acknowledged by the senior staff of the Manitoba Telephone Given the fact that this has put in doubt the credibility of senior officials who reported to this and perhaps even this minister and his on the Issue of will the Premier now not agree to opening the matter up to a judicial inquiry so that All of the matter that have to do with the Manitoba Telephone system and its subsidiary and its related operations in saudi Arabia can be examined under oath in a Public forum to Clear the air on All of these matters Premier Howard Pawley Madam i appreciate the question and the seriousness in which the question is allegations of misleading ministers members of this House by Max officials or its officials can not be taken once this government is satisfied that in the Case and it is clearly Demon then those officials will be dealt and dealt with approx Filmon Madam does the Premier not realize that Between the management audit of Maxs involvement in saudi Ara Bia and the investigation of Crimi Nal activities to do with alleged kickbacks and illegal there is a Broad Range of issues that have been brought to Light by virtue of testimony before by virtue of an affidavit that has been signed by one former employee of the Max operation does he not realize that in that Broad Gap there is much to do with the operation of Max that involves All sorts of shoddy business prac Tice that involves the misinformation being provided by senior officials that involves such things As commissions being paid on equip ment not sold it involves account ing practices that misinterpreted and misled those who would want to examine the operation of Max in Complete All of these things that cannot be accomplished by a management audit that can not be accomplished by the ramp inquiry into the narrow criminal allegations will he not now order the minis Ter responsible for its in cause a judicial inquiry to happen and beyond we will know that once and for All the Telephone system can be restored to its Good can have its reputation re and that the people who work for the Telephone system can once again hold their Heads High Pawley my impression is the vast bulk of the allegations in that affidavit Are indeed very serious and there Are allegations that can Only be dealt with properly by the those Are allegations involving kickbacks and graft and criminal and i know of no other body that can do the Lay charges if charges indeed Are than the ramp and in sure that the ramp will fulfil that allegations that were raised just a few seconds ago and have been raised earlier of accounting shoddy Busi Ness practice and other items of that will be dealt with by the management by a Well respected management audit com in i do not believe that any proper investigation resulting in constructive recommendations can take place except by inviting the Best expertise possible to provide a Complete report and recommendations As to those shoddy business practices As to allegations pertaining to accounting practices and other matters pertaining to the business operations of we Are anxious to ensure that All allegations Are dealt with completely and and if there Are allegations beyond that of appropriate action will be taken As against any individual that has misled or misinformed this in fact if that is clearly documented and Filmon Madam is the Premier not concerned that All of the allegations contained in that affidavit by Ferguson were first presented to his superiors at Max and its those allegations were first presented to them for a consider Able period of time he was told not to say to keep quiet and to Stop pursuing the matter and Only As a last resort did he put this matter into the form of an affidavit and make it Public through the vehicle of the opposition and a committee of the legislature is he not concerned with that sort of attitude prevalent in Max and the Telephone this inquiry on the criminal basis and the manage ment audit will simply result in the covering the continued covering up of vital information to Clear the air on Max Pawley Madam the Leader of the opposition in fact is confirming the position that Ive just if any individual instructed an other individual to remain upon receipt of information pertain ing to alleged kickbacks or and not to Deal with that at that then that i is appropriately As Well the subject of an investigation by the Filmon Madam my further question to the Premier is is he not interested in getting All of the information Public and encouraging members of the staff of Max and others to come publicly with All of their not just to do with criminal but to do with accounting practices that were to do with business practices that were not appropriate and not to do with falsification of records and information within the Telephone system and Maxs operations so As not to show a proper picture of what was going on in that none of which is going to be investigated by the ramp because it does not fall in the realm of criminal actions Pawley Madam in sofar As the items raised specifically again by the Leader of the oppose dealt with them a few moments ago falsification of rec clearly its a ramp matters pertaining to accounting business the appropriate body for that would be the Best management consultants and auditors in the and that what will be Filmon will the ramp be investigating senior officials not telling the truth to the minister or to this Pawley the ramp will Deal with All those matters within their insofar As statements pertaining to individuals of not providing accurate or truthful in i thought we had just announced a few moments go that the legislative committee would be meeting next that ought to be pursued by not just the but All members of this chamber because its intolerable if there is evidence of individuals not telling the truth but that is a matter for the legislative com Mittee to Deal and if those facts Are established and not by Way of a Kangaroo then this minister and this government will undertake decisive action in regard to discipline or firing or any other action that is Filmon in View of the fact that the attorney general has con firmed that it is not an offence to Tell a except under will we now have the judicial inquiry that we need in order to allow everybody to come Forward and be examined under oath in a judicial inquiry and get to the Bottom of All this Pawley let me assure the Leader of the opposition that it is a criminal offence to if that lie is part and parcel of a larger conspiracy to defraud or to conduct Crimi Nal a As part of a criminal is criminal and that is a matter that the ramp in will do an effective if lies have been Given to the and that is a matter for All committee members to adequately pursue in if that is clearly As Ive indicated appropriate action must be taken against any individuals who have misled a min Liberal Leader Sharon Carstairs will the first minister Call an inquiry with Powers to subpoena Nesses Pawley the committee of the legislature can do that if the committee desires to do the Only area that in aware of that would not be dealt with by the ramp the management consulting audit firm would be the allegations pertaining to the mis leading or lying to ministers members of the that is a matter that is taken very seriously by this government and if that is established action will be taken and a judicial inquiry is not required to Deal with the other items which Are included in the affidavit that was tabled earlier this other shoddy business account will be dealt with in the Way that has been clearly August 15 Fumon my question is for the first i have before me the copy of order Council dated january which caused the formation of the Max it is signed by the As president of the executive my question to the Premier at the time that he signed this order i Council causing Max to be Stab was he informed that Mitel a International company that manufactures and Dis tributes electronic components had Cut off the credit to the telecoms division of Al Bassan the company which Max was to go into partnership with on a 5fr50 basis to set up its saudi arabian operations Pawley Madam to ensure accuracy in i want to Check my records in that re Fumon my further question to the Premier when he signed this order Council causing the for mation of was he informed at that time that its was owed a substantial sum of Money by Tele the associated company in saudi prior to its entering into the 5050 a signal that i would think should have clearly indicated concerns about the liquidity and the financial stability of that firm Pawley in order to ensure accuracy of ill take that question As Fumon my further question to the Premier at the time that Max was being formed and Deci Sions were being taken by his Cabi net and his government to enter into these so called High risk foreign in did he have information that would indicate that prior to the formation of its was lending to the saudi arabian associated company of Sheik Al substantial sums of Money Pawley i would appreciate if the Leader of the opposition wants to pose questions that he ensure that his questions Are factual and not geared to attempt to create argumentative its a serious Issue and ill accept that latter ques As As Fumon i wonder if the pre Mier could indicate whether or not the receivables that were owed by telecoms to its were Ever or if we set up Max to capitalize our doubtful accounts Over in saudi Ara Bia with these various Pawley i could accept this question As but it seemed to me to be a question that would be appropriately asked in Filmon since the Premier int willing to answer or unable to answer any of these my further question to him is will be looking into the possible discriminatory hiring practices at Max Pawley that question was dealt with a week Fumon in View of the fact that in the past the Premier has indicated that there were no re quests or no rejections with respect to the hiring of women or jews to work in saudi Arabia by yet in View of the fact that on August the minister then responsible for the Telephone system said in committee that its had taken Steps to improve the orientation of people who would be going Over there so that people Are selected who will be compatible with that in View of the fact that this is clearly contradictory on the record of what this Premier has said to tills will he not now open this whole matter up to full Public inquiry Pawley that question was dealt with the answer of yesterday remains so Filmon the minister has referred to the sitting of the committee on Public utilities As being the answer to these questions on several occasions today and indeed yester in response to the ques will the first minister Call an inquiry with Powers to subpoena this first minister said Madam the committee of the legislature can do that if the committee desires to do my question to the Premier is he going to instruct his members of the committee of the legislature to agree to have witnesses subpoenaed under oath before the committee so that we can examine All of these1 matters that Hes unable to answer for me this morning Pawley i answered that ques Tion and i indicated that was within the Powers of the commit i opposed witnesses being called under oath when theres a parallel ramp investigation under Fumon then who is it that the Premier Doest want called be fore that before that com Mittee will he for Mike a san to be called before that committee to be Able to testify under oath Pawley the Leader of the opposition May want to prejudge the work of the committee for his own purposes or his own the Leader of the opposition May Dis Trust the effectiveness fair Ness and the efficiency of the but let me assure you that i have every Confidence in the ability of the ramp to carry out its work if Fumon i have the utmost Confidence in the ability of the ramp to conduct full and Complete inquiry into the criminal does the Premier not realize that All of the questions Ive asked him today do not involve Crim Inal and do not involve the kinds of things the ramp Are going to investigate so How will we get the full and Complete airing of All of the concerns about Max and its operations in saudi Arabia Pawley All the necessary answers will be obtained without jeopardizing the work of the the cooperation of All members is All members of the pub in order to ensure that the ramp Are Able to fulfil their obligations to investigate the allegations that Are i for one will not be party to the jeopardizing of the work of the Filmon just to be absolutely certain As to where the Premier stands with respect to calling wit Nesses to a committee of the Legisla Ture would he support that kind of initiative to ensure that witnesses Are called before the committee to be Able to be subpoenaed before a committee of the legislature to answer questions that Are not obviously going to be covered by the ramp investigation or the other inquiry that he has put up under a manage ment consultant Pawley i dealt with that question and i answered it fully Filmon there is nothing on the record that indicates whether or not the Premier would support Call sub meaning first of two parts Canada still needs immigrants to help in building better future by Jim Carr special to the free press the vigorous debate sparked by the dramatic entry into this country of 155 tamil refugees has raised anew some enduring questions for whom should we Wel come to our shores from foreign lands and How Many our record As a nation is during the great influx of immigrants at the turn of the we opened our doors to tens of thousands of Many escaping some simply seeking a better life in a land of we gave them free land and them to establish roots on the in the we turned away jews desperately seeking to escape the Iron grip of hitlers of All the countries in the civilized our record was the most an Antisemitic bureaucrat by the name of Frederick Charles Blair imposed his bigotry Over the immigration with the compliance of his political and systematically barred jews from entering refugee status the government of Canada adopts a far More humane policy towards people fleeing granting hearings to any individual seeking refugee admitting most of them to our our attitude is less generous when it comes to processing regular Immi in we admitted immigrants into Canada in a paltry of whom obtained refugee the single largest group within that total comes from followed by eur North and Central South and Manitoba absorbed immigrants in while the total number of persons allowed into the country is controlled by government the individual selection process is now almost completely devoid of subjective judgments and fully half of All immigrants to Canada Are either the spouses or parents of people already settled As Long As they Are in Good health and of Good character no criminal they Are granted Independent immigrants admitted into Canada Are subject to a Complex Point system which determines their suitability according to strict Cri including specific vocational occupy fluency in English or French and applicants must initiate the process outside of this those who oppose an open door policy argue that foreigners take jobs away from a Mas Sive influx of they will play havoc with our frag Ile Economy and result in the Dislo cation of those already established in the we should admit very few people and Only those who take jobs canadians do not Many would bringing in people from Dif Ferent cultures and races May disturb the thin veneer of racial Toler Ance which covers never very far the these attitudes deny the history of Canadian nationhood and ignore the psychological and physical forces which motivate men and women to pull up roots and seek a new life in this it has become a cliche to remark that there Are no majorities in Cana but cliches Are cliches for a this nation is a microcosm of the reflecting a diversity of religions and races from which we derive our great strength As a we have Woven into our National fabric a respect for differ ence while preserving and protect ing those democratic values which guarantee the Freedom to express our closing our doors to new immigration would Fly in the face of the Canadian formula for successful nation new arrivals the economic arguments against More immigration Are while it is impossible to keep accurate records of the Success enjoyed by new arrivals to local immigration officials Point out that very few recent immigrants run afoul of the Law and the vast majority stay off the welfare the obvious reason is that these people Are highly grateful to be in a country of Opportunity and anxious to work As hard As they must to create a better life for their Chil Canada needs new Immi Grants help produce goods and ser they add to the Pool of con Sumers who buy those goods and services and they create new wealth through entrepreneurial they come to Canada with the will to encouraged by the enlightened Quality of Canadian immigration has been Good for our policies in today world should recognize the Success of those who built this country and ease the Way Tor new arrivals who will help us shape the i ;